With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion. (Steven Weinberg)
Thanks for playing along, Elie, you make a wonderful Devil’s Advocate.
God’s Advocate (sipping coffee, in a good mood): How are you?
Devil’s Advocate: Am fine. What about you?
God’s Advocate: Good, good. Couldn't be better. I think I found god.
Devil’s Advocate (smile): Where did you find him? Or did he find you? Are you both dating now?
God’s Advocate: Well...let's keep it as a surprise (smile). Yeah, god and I are dating.
Devil’s Advocate: Are you now...So, is he the ONE? How is it going?
God’s Advocate: Well, I talk to him, he ignores me...I think he might be a man, after all.
Devil’s Advocate: Nah, I don't think that, but you got me for a second. A man?
God’s Advocate: A man, or something else. You know, give me ambiguity or give me anything else. Ancient Greeks defined god as an explicative stable principle while everything else is prone to transformation. What we are basically witnessing is the existence of two worlds: a world of senses and one of reason, and god can only be explained through the second one. Which appeals to me more than the Christian doctrine. However, just think of how mundane and naive most people perceive God, as if he is some wish granter. Greeks foresaw the quantum physics principle of permanent change way before it was labeled as such. God is stability, the spine of the world not some angry dude that burns bushes, promises heavens or forgives your sins...For that, we don't need god, we need ourselves because is harder to forgive ourselves....
Devil’s Advocate: Sometimes it makes me wonder if it isn’t us who created God according to our own image and likeness, and not the other way around.
God’s Advocate: Hmm, Hegel did say that the reality is the creation of our own mind. It could be possible.
Devil’s Advocate: It's the need to forgive our own self that we created an image of God that we can repent before. Many things make me think over and over that it's out of our feeling of insecurity that we created God, just a bit more powerful so that we can feel stability. It's like us saying "there is a supreme being taking care of everything, why should we worry?"
God’s Advocate: Couldn't be also a possibility that, ultimately, god is our better selves? I mean, come to think of it, all major monotheistic religions (sister religions: Islam, Christianity and Judaism) preach about goodness, and ultimately trying to bring up the best in us, forcing us to become kinder, more moral, more tolerant...Now, how humans distort to their liking these teachings is another story...
Devil’s Advocate: That's what I was trying to say, that we created god and gave him an image eliminating all our flaws.
God’s Advocate: True.
Devil’s Advocate: Just to feel secure and stable.
God’s Advocate: God as an improved version of us. God is us.
Devil’s Advocate: Yes, as we noticed that we f*** up pretty much everything since day one. We needed to feel that there is someone who is controlling all our f*** ups. It also sounds more credible if I come and tell a bunch of people ‘you are not allowed to do that’. They'd not buy it. But if I come and tell them: ‘God told me this is forbidden’, it's more credible. THAT, I understand, the concept of creating God. But what I don't understand is religion. See, when it comes to BS, if there ever was a major BS league, you have to stand in awe of the one and only all time champion of false promises and exaggeration - that is Religion.
God’s Advocate: Well, religion was rather a state doctrine. Think of the dark ages when Church or religious institutions simply made the rule. Even kings were submissive to their power. I reckon they came as a natural request to control masses with the threat of a higher power, unexplainable to the ordinary and uneducated people. Believe and seek no more. But this particular approach made God a disservice as it pushed people away from Him as eventually they identified Him with the religious institutions.
Devil’s Advocate: Religion by far is the greatest BS story that has ever been told. It actually convinced people that there's an invisible man, living in the skies, watching every thing you do, that he has a list of ten things that he does not want you to do, and if you do any of these ten things, he has a special place full of fire and smoke and torture where he will send you to live, suffer, burn, choke, scream and cry for ever and ever until the end of time...But, He loves you. Does He? Then why the punishment? And if you look at what's going on around you…
God’s Advocate (cutting in): That is the simplistic approach.
Devil’s Advocate: War, diseases, death, famine, poverty, filth, hunger.
God’s Advocate: Also beauty, kindness, tolerance, compassion plus our choice to fix things. But we don't.
Devil’s Advocate: (going on): Destruction!
God’s Advocate: So why blame God? It is not God that created weapons. He gave us the intelligence, now how we use it is our choice...
Devil’s Advocate: If it's true what you're saying, then this is not good work, this is not even close to good work. Why create a creature who can lead to all this? If this is the best god can do, I am not impressed. Results like these don’t belong on a resume of a supreme being.
God’s Advocate: Well, if he created humans -apparently perfect- and then he offered us the choice...Let's say he was not a strict god...
Devil’s Advocate: Dear, in any decently run universe, this guy would have been out of powers a long time ago. I said this "guy", cause I believe, that no woman can mess up things this way.
God’s Advocate: So your bottom line is: god exists but he is far from being perfect?!
Devil’s Advocate: …that and he's a guy not a woman (smiles).
God’s Advocate: Must he have a gender?
Devil’s Advocate: Everything has a gender, apart from those microscopic bacteria.
God’s Advocate: Can't he be just like Q from Star Trek, an omnipresent and omnipotent entity?
Devil’s Advocate (shaking his head categorically): No, no. He's a guy.
God’s Advocate (smirks): So god must have a gender, attributes and is full of defects. We transform him into a human. Why bring him down from the pedestal?
Devil’s Advocate: Look at the results again and you can be sure he's a guy and there are things that do not match. You see, how many prayers are raised? Millions and trillions, right? When do they happen most?
God’s Advocate (cutting in): We are supposed to aspire to reach to him, not bring him down...
Devil’s Advocate (going on undisturbed): On Sunday, right? His day off?
God’s Advocate (mumbling upset): This is the major problem humans have: they want to destroy, demolish, bring down governments but they hardly think of a replacement. Well his day off was on Saturday. He started working on Sunday, according to religious scripts. How we take days off, it’s a matter of business calendar and how churches decided to calculate the Gregorian days.
Devil’s Advocate (smiles): OK, then it's fine. They can keep on praying on Sundays and asking: give me this and give me that, I want a new car, a better job, help here, help me there…
God’s Advocate: Make me slim or make my friends fat…
Devil’s Advocate: Yeah! But I say “fine, pray for whatever you want, anytime you want, but what about the divine plan? Remember that? The divine plan?
God’s Advocate: Where do the Prada shoes I prayed for fit with the divine plan? Sorry, what are you talking about?
Devil’s Advocate: Long time ago, he made a divine plan. He gave it a lot of thinking and decided it was perfect, right? And then he put it into action for billion and billion of years.
Now you come along and pray for something. Suppose the thing you want isn't in his divine plan, like the Prada shoes. What do you want him to do then? To change his divine plan? Isn't that arrogance?!!
God’s Advocate: No, it is a wrongful perception people have of this divinity concept. As I said, most believe god is some golden fish or Aladdin’s lamp. The divine plan itself is a human invention. God has no plan. He simply is.
Devil’s Advocate: It's a DIVINE plan!! What is the use of being supreme, if every a**hole can come and f*** up your plan?
God’s Advocate: Now, how he rapports himself to us and why we keep on believing in his existence is a different story altogether.
Devil’s Advocate: See, that's what I am saying, I am talking about religion and how it can win in any league of bull***. Things just do not match.
God’s Advocate: Maybe there is this higher power, something beyond our power of comprehension. It doesn't mean he is the one we think he is. He might as well not give a rat's a** on us and we came up with divine planning, free-will, praying and Ten Commandments so we feel free or to actually prevent from killing each other!
Devil’s Advocate: I am not saying how I see god here, I am saying how religion sees god and what they teach and preach us. And things do not match so it makes one wonder!
God’s Advocate: So your personal problem is with religion not god. I thought you trash god for f*** ups…
Devil’s Advocate: And then when your prayers are not answered, they'd tell you, it's fine "thy will be done", it's god's will…fine, so if it's god's will and god is going to do whatever he wants to anyway, why bother praying?!
God’s Advocate: Cause it soothes the soul! As god is not a perfect being. He is a necessary being. We need him!
Devil’s Advocate (ironic): Yeah? What about angels then?
God’s Advocate: No genies and angels talk, please. No fairies, either. Let's resume to the concept of god as the ultimate power or our better improved self of our creation to help us deal with our darkest hours.
Devil’s Advocate: Many people claim seeing angels.
God’s Advocate: No Mohammed, Jesus or Abraham talks either. We are talking GOD.
Devil’s Advocate: It's all related, isn't it?
God’s Advocate: They are deluding, and if reality is our creation, they might as well claim they see mother Theresa naked and believe it. For them that is the truth.
Devil’s Advocate (sarcastically): I think angels are psychotic flashbacks for all drugs smoked, swallowed, shot, and/or absorbed rectally since day one until now.
God’s Advocate (couldn’t help, burst laughing): That is angel dust, alright. Powerful drug I might say and also Faith No More's most famous album. Angel dust, faith no more, they are all related, aren’t they? Well maybe we need certain chemical additives to access some corners of our mind. What if god is after all an innate idea, but we cannot reach it unless we trigger some stimuli? What if drugs indeed allow us to access that forgotten god given area within us that in a conscious state we can’t access?
Devil’s Advocate: Then why church is against drugs? Plus it's like making god against nature.
God’s Advocate: Again, Devil’s Advocate, resume to god, forget about Church, Mosque or Synagogue.
Devil’s Advocate: Ah, OK. So you want me to only talk about god today. What else should I not be talking about? And what should I be talking about tomorrow?
God’s Advocate: About the gender of bacteria. I find this subject most fascinating...(smiles).
Devil’s Advocate: It's just that I have so much rage inside against church. God is not a problem. I think I defined my relationship with whatever god might be and if he exists, I think he's okay about it.
God’s Advocate (smiles).
Devil’s Advocate: I am not in a hurry to define what god is.
God’s Advocate: Why do you rage against church? You are a wise man.
Devil’s Advocate: I think if he wanted me to know what or who he is, he would have told me already. But keeping it as mystery sounds more like a riddle for mankind to have fun trying to solve.
God’s Advocate: Sometimes is the ride that matters, not the destination. It is the destination so living life itself is a quest, a riddle. What is wrong with that?
Devil’s Advocate: Well if there is a ride and a destination, then I guess the ride is my life here on earth and what I do. The destination is unknown and it may or may not depend on the way I am taking this ride. How long am I going to live? One day? 40 years? 60 years? 70 years? I am going to find out. For now, I am enjoying the ride, living by my Two Commandments, not Ten!
God’s Advocate (smiles): Which are?
Devil’s Advocate: I guess if there is a god, - and he should be reading what I am telling you now- he should be satisfied by my Two commandments instead of his Ten.
God’s Advocate: He knows before you speak. Reading is a human concept. Reading is not his attribute since he is an incorporeal being. He doesn’t have eyes, he is a presence. Not touchable...
Devil’s Advocate: Yeah, but he should be reading to cross check, no?
God’s Advocate: What are those commandments, you wise one? As he even knows what you are going to say next, but I don’t, so enlighten me.
Devil’s Advocate: Or is he too self confident to read? So his presence doesn’t need to cross check things he already knows?
God’s Advocate: No, cause cross checking involves doubt. Doubt is human and, I might say, an element of faith....
Devil’s Advocate: I know he's not keeping up with all these technologies, but let's say his presence should commute with what I am saying now.
God’s Advocate: What are those two commandments? My patience is running thin. I am only a human being full of defects as created from Adam's rib.
Devil’s Advocate: Thou shalt always be honest and Thou shalt do no harm.
God’s Advocate: Honesty is over rated. It brings you nowhere and sometimes can created discomfort to the bearer.
Devil’s Advocate: Let me take the Ten Commandments and show you how they can be shrunk into these two: honest towards yourself- know what you want, and do it, and know what you don’t want and never do it! Never let your sense of morals stand in your way of doing what you think is right. I can elaborate more on honesty and if you ask me the list was inflated to become Ten. Do you know why?
God’s Advocate: No, but I have the feeling that your answer will imminently follow. Do tell.
Devil’s Advocate: Because Ten sounds more official. You never heard of Top Nine or Top Eleven. The Ten Commandments were a marketing decision, just to sell better and they knew people are going to believe them this way, because most people believe what they are told and roll over on command. They actually made people believe that god gave them this list up on a mountain when no one was around! Do you know the Ten Commandments? I almost forgot them.
God’s Advocate: So you think without these commandments, humans couldn't be moral? Do we need a law to prevent us from harming or being honest? Don’t we have that inside us? Because if this is the case, it means that only those that abide by those commandments are moral people, and all the atheists or agnostic are morally loose or immoral.
Devil’s Advocate: Let me check them on Google but no, this is not what I am saying. Again, I am speaking about religion, they needed to control people and put them inline so they came up with this list. True, it's inside us all. Atheists have those morals as well but since believers and atheists have also a dark side, religious people decided to control things and hence came up with the Ten Commandments, to basically inoculate fear within people and made it more credible by giving it number Ten and saying that GOD gave it to them. OK, wait I found them. Let me go through each, OK?
God’s Advocate: Please, recite them to me...
Devil’s Advocate: I will use the Roman Catholic ones.
God’s Advocate: I guess they are all the same, aren’t they?
Devil’s Advocate: No, on Wikipedia, you can see like 4 lists or even more. Anyway,
I AM THE LORD THY GOD THOU SHALT NOT HAVE STRANGE GODS BEFORE ME,
THOU SHALT NOT TAKE THE NAME OF THE LORD THY GOD IN VAIN, and
THOU SHALT KEEP HOLY THE SABBATH.
God’s Advocate: OK.
Devil’s Advocate: Spooky words, just to put fear.
God’s Advocate: They are not spooky, it is Middle English (smiles).
Devil’s Advocate: …and to prepare people to accept what's next.
God’s Advocate: this is why they are called COMMANDMENTS! They must be imperative, God is not asking nicely, he commands.
Devil’s Advocate: It's not god. It's the religious people who claimed god gave it to them.
God’s Advocate: The Ten Commandments are originating from the Old Testament (The Talmud) which is the Holy Book of Jews, and they have a different perception of god: a tit for tat, revengeful one, closer to the dark human nature. If you notice, the Orthodox Church, later on, softened the tone.
Devil’s Advocate (undisturbed): So they decided that those spooky words, if they start the list with them, they will make it easier for people to believe and get scared and ready to abide.
God’s Advocate: OK, how do you make the masses listen to you? By asking nicely? You need an enlightened despot. Doing good by force for those who don’t know what is good for them. God is like a parent who gently spank us to prevent us from putting our hand in the fire.
Devil’s Advocate: Yeah, it's when Moses went to the mountain when no ones was around to make sure, and he came back with the Talmud. Please!
God’s Advocate: If you need to install by force "do not kill" and claim you are backed up by a higher power, so be it. At those times people killed each other with great ease.
Devil’s Advocate: They still do, darling.
God’s Advocate: The value of life and its priorities was different, as the perception of after life was different.
Devil’s Advocate: It's not by using force and spooky words that you can erase the dark side of human nature. Again, I am telling you how the list was inflated to become Ten. You are not listening.
God’s Advocate: But humans after all are trainable...
Devil’s Advocate: We don’t need these scriptures of Ten Commandments to know what to do and what not to do. See, for instance, HONOR THY FATHER AND MOTHER. We spoke about that you and I, remember?
God’s Advocate: Right now, we don't need them. But at those times they did need them. We just need to update those commandments.
Devil’s Advocate: It’s about obedience and putting people inline, when I think that obedience and respect and honoring is not automatic and based on father and mother's performance. It is earned! You said it yourself! Even mothers need to earn their respect!
God’s Advocate (stubbornly): As I said, life was not valued before and according to the religious orientation some even perceived it as attaining immortality through human sacrifice. So they had to come up with an imperative request and a punishment to stop the killings. We were savages!
Devil’s Advocate: So because people were savages they said that each should honor their parents? It's not automatic. It should have been earned, even back then.
God’s Advocate: I had in mind "thou shalt not kill" but you didn’t stop to let me cut in.
Devil’s Advocate: We will come to it. It is there somewhere on the list. Plus, remember. What was my Second Commandment? And why I am saying that Moses should have come with only those Two Commandments in his pocket instead?
God’s Advocate (ironically): Do no harm, master (smiles).
Devil’s Advocate: So, do no harm means everything. See, the first Four are to be thrown away, right off the bet. Going on: THOU SHALT NOT STEAL and THOU SHALT NOT BEAR FALSE WITNESS. Again: stealing is harming. Stealing and lying means dishonesty, so you don’t really need to say the same thing. We can say: thou shalt be honest instead, right?
God’s Advocate (humble): Yes, go on.
Devil’s Advocate: THOU SHALT NOT COMMIT ADULTERY and THOU SHALT NOT COVET THY NEIGHBOR'S WIFE. It means thou shalt do no harm.
God’s Advocate (cutting in): …or give in to lust. It means raise yourself above your animalistic level.
Devil’s Advocate: Giving in to lust leads to harm.
God’s Advocate: Well, not necessarily. It depends what you are lusting on...
Devil’s Advocate: Then it's fine as long as there is no harm.
God’s Advocate (smiles).
Devil’s Advocate: True. So just put it this way, ‘do no harm’, cause if a man is fantasizing over his neighbor’s wife while waxing his carrot, there is no harm. He's fine by coveting his neighbor's wife as long as he doesn’t harm his neighbor. However, if he's coveting her while waxing his carrot, I don’t see any problem with that, as long as it does not develop into causing harm.
God’s Advocate (laughing). True.
Devil’s Advocate (triumphantly): So we're back to "do no harm".
God’s Advocate: In this particular case, true.
Devil’s Advocate: Moving on. THOU SHALT NOT COVET THY NEIGHBOR’S GOODS. This one is funny, as long as it doesn’t lead to stealing equaling to doing harm, then it should be fine. Otherwise what's going to keep the market going? Coveting your neighbor's goods is what makes the economy going. Your neighbor gets a vibrator that sings, you want to get one, too. It creates jobs and opportunities actually, so as long as you're not harming your neighbor while coveting his goods, you're fine. Hence we are referring again to the "do no harm" commandment.
God’s Advocate: It is actually also about suppressing greed. As I said: I perceive these commandments rather as forceful laws to improve ourselves morally by self-restraint
because lust and greed are basic human and natural inclinations. Now, by restraining them, it raises you morally, thus bringing you closer to the perfectly moral god.
Devil’s Advocate: What harm is there if you have greed inside that won't develop into harming someone? That’s what I am saying; feeling greedy to have something that others have is ‘no harm’, but when you act on it like killing your neighbor to have what he has, then it's a problem. On the contrary, being greedy may be good when it pushes you to work your ass off to have what he has. Greediness is economically stimulating.
God’s Advocate: There is no harm in ‘being greedy’, it is just not morally righteous and the commandments are about this.
Devil’s Advocate: Aren’t you also lifted up when you work hard to reach your target?
Why isn’t normal? You’re mixing things up, darling. Being greedy alone does not equal to being immorally greedy. For instance, you want bigger boobs, now that's being greedy, but killing Scarlett Johansson to have her boobs transplanted from her to you, that's being immorally greedy.
God’s Advocate (annoyed): I think you mix up being needy with being greedy. No, greed is not ok. And my boobs are just fine, thank you.
God’s Advocate: Wanting and achieving more is one thing. But greed takes you a step further as in trying to achieve that aim at any cost, which makes you immoral. Killing is not greed, killing is simply wrong. The fact that I don’t agree with you doesn’t mean I mix up things.
Devil’s Advocate: But it's greed that pushed you to kill! So "do no harm" comes in place.
God’s Advocate: I just don’t agree.
Devil’s Advocate: OK, listen. Do whatever you want, think and feel whatever you want, but just do no harm. Doesn’t it make it for you? For human kind? I am going to go along with you, for the sake of debating, although you are an unchallenging opponent. You said that greediness pushes you to make something at any cost, right? Meaning hurting someone and causing harm, right? So instead of saying ‘don’t covet your neighbor's good’ just refer to ‘do no harm’ and it will be fine. Then you can think, ‘fine, my neighbor has that dildo and I want it but i am going to buy one and I won’t have hers at any cost. Instead, I am going to do it morally because doing it immorally may lead to harming someone.
God’s Advocate: Well. It is a bigger umbrella that covers what you are saying, but sometimes you need to go into specifics so you leave no room for speculations. Someone might think that having sex with the neighbor’s wife is no harm: the neighbor doesn’t know (and what you don’t know, cannot harm you), the wife enjoys it and so do you. Now, where is the harm? No where. So going down to specifics ‘harm’ means: lust, greed, killing, and honoring. It is important to specify which kind of harm. It is too generic and vague to say "do not harm".
Devil’s Advocate (condescending): I am not sure if you're hearing what I am saying or whether you're following my algorithm.
God’s Advocate (slightly annoyed): I am trying to answer when you are asking something but I am not sure you want my answers or are just rhetoric questions.
Devil’s Advocate: Hold on, hold on.
God’s Advocate: I am following you through and through.
Devil’s Advocate (imperative): What is my second commandment?
God’s Advocate: Go on, Devil’s Advocate.
Devil’s Advocate (persistent): What is my second commandment?
God’s Advocate: Just go on, already!
Devil’s Advocate (raising voice): What is it? I said I have Two. First is do no harm and the second?
God’s Advocate: Devil’s Advocate, stop being childish. This is not religion class. Make your point, if you have any, and move on. I am waiting for you to see where you want to get.
Devil’s Advocate: Childish? I am arguing with you for Pete’s sake! Childish? If I am asking you something does it mean I am being childish?
God’s Advocate: You insisted that I repeated what you said. I find that rather, ahem, childish. What do you want to prove? That I don’t hear you out? Just go on.
Devil’s Advocate: No, it's not that I wanted to prove that you don’t hear me out. It’s to reach a point because you said "someone might think that having sex with the neighbor’s wife is not harm if the neighbor doesn’t know". So I was saying that when you combine ‘do no harm’ with ‘be honest’, there is no way for that to happen, and you will know that by being dishonest you are violating number Two. By the way, thanks!
God’s Advocate (raising an eyebrow): Whatever for? In case you are not being ironic?
Devil’s Advocate (venting out): Phew, childish!! It's my way to discuss, by asking someone about something to bring them to my point. If you see it childish, then thanks for pointing it out to me.
God’s Advocate (placatory): You are being defensive now. The way you asked repeatedly "what is my second commandment, what is my second commandment, what is it" I find it childish. Cause you wanted to make a point and you suddenly stumbled upon my response....
Devil’s Advocate (angry): I asked you a question, it would have been nice if you answered. If you find what I am saying silly or stupid, don’t wait for me to finish and urge me to finish by saying ‘go on’. Stop me right away and say you're not interested!
God’s Advocate: FYI, you had my full and undivided attention and I apologize for the childish comment. It was uncalled for.
Devil’s Advocate: If someone isn’t listening to what I am saying, should I oblige them to, by embarrassing myself and sound like a child? It's just my way to debate and to make a point. Any point even if it's stupid one. Is that bad? Or even childish?
God’s Advocate: OK, I appreciate your honesty and your input, as always. But with all due respect, I will not give in to your latest remarks. IMHO, I find them defensive and I think we are on a verge of becoming very touchy. I have already apologized. If this doesn't make it better, I am sorry; I don't know what else to say.
God’s Advocate (after a few moments of silence): Do you want to wrap this up? I mean the god conversation? Is there any point you want to make apart from the ones you made already?
Devil’s Advocate (frowning and reluctant): What do you mean?
God’s Advocate: I think we got interrupted by our small misunderstanding and we didn’t finish.
Devil’s Advocate: Oh, OK. Cause your way of asking seemed more like ‘is there other childish point you want to make ’?
God’s Advocate: No….
Devil’s Advocate (deflated): There was the last commandment, about killing ‘Thou shalt not kill’. Besides that, religion had no problem with murder whatsoever. Many people were killed in the name of god. The Crusades and World Trade Center are the most relevant examples.
God’s Advocate (nodding sadly): True.
Devil’s Advocate: And the more devoted they are to religion, the more murdering is negotiable to them. I can refer this last commandment to "do no harm to others" even if the others pray to a different invisible man.
God’s Advocate: No comment. I agree.
Devil’s Advocate: So it's either I am childish or you actually have no comment?
God’s Advocate: Why are you assuming?
Devil’s Advocate: Yeah, sadly assumption is the mother of all f*** ups.
God’s Advocate: It just happens to agree with you and I don’t insist on having the last word. Not now. But before I leave: do you believe in God? Let alone your beliefs about commandments and church.
Devil’s Advocate (pause): Yes, in my own God.
God’s Advocate (curious): What is your own god?
Reporter’s note: Unfortunately, The Devil’s Advocate didn’t answer this question, and since the spirits were highly inflamed, they brought the interview to a natural end, leaving, as so many unanswered questions, the response floating somewhere in the universe.
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